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iniviate

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helping my buddy with his 12 valve.... it was running fine in the frame. we installed a set of 4k gov springs and now it won't rev up without blowing white/grey smoke and breaking up.

It's a stock motor, stock injectors, stock 175hp pump. stock fuel plate, stock AFC.

pump is timed at 18 degrees. used the valve drop method to find TDC and plunger lift to determine timing. timing has been verified twice. it has not slipped.

fuel pressure is ~25psi. also clamped off the return line to boost fuel pressure to 65psi, no help. also tried fresh fuel.

adjusted gov springs up and down on clicks, verified install, and eventually re-installed the stock gov springs.

what's next?


here's a video....


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IRON MAN

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Im new to cummins.. but that sure looks like water is gettin in breaking up the motor and smoking at the same time.... ?

Did you have to mess with any coolant passages or how is the oil/water separated on the older cummins ?
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tried a hose from the lift pump into a jug of fresh diesel.....  also had the fuel filter off inspecting and no water in it.

the motor has never been apart and it will do it even if there is no coolant in the motor.

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grizzilla06

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Reply with quote  #4 
Sounds like the timing is off. Same thing happend to my buddy when putting in a 4k spring.
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Reply with quote  #5 
i have checked the timing twice now.... it hasn't slipped from where i set it initially and it ran fine at this setting.
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bigbodybronc

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Reply with quote  #6 
Try advancing the timing sounds retarded i had the same problem very similar symptoms guy thought it ws the pump but the timing gear slippedgot it for 2grand its worth a try
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that's probably where we're at....  i think we should either just advance it, or pin time it. probably try both.

although it doesn't make much sense to me.

i timed it the first time and it ran fine.

using all the same tools, i have verified that first timing twice now. it hasn't moved.

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Diesel Life

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Reply with quote  #8 
i have a 12valve and i had that problem when i put my springs in and it through the timing off you need to advance the time you injecting fuel in to early or late 
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that doesn't make any sense though....  the gov springs don't have anything to do with timing on a p7100.

plus, we put the stock gov springs back in and it's still doing it.

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Diesel Life

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Reply with quote  #10 
i know on the 24 valve when the pump goes bad it makes it run that way i understand its a 12 valve but just giving ideas
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Reply with quote  #11 
Deffinatly timing. I've got the blue point timing set you could borrow, I'm in Sarasota though
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reazy4x4
Deffinatly timing. I've got the blue point timing set you could borrow, I'm in Sarasota though



i have the same set.

i used it to set the timing and it ran normal. the timing has not moved and now it doesn't run good.

the timing has been verified twice now and has not moved.



that said.... we're pretty much out of ideas, so we're gonna try advancing the timing to like 25 degrees and see how it runs.

i also might try the spill port method of timing and see how that goes...

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Reazy4x4

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Reply with quote  #13 
And you put both sets of stock springs back in it and its still doin it?
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yep...
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jrpro130

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thats strange it does it with stock governer springs.  I want to say it's a GSK issue, but honestly sounds like timing.  I reccomend start by pin timing and go from there.  You are def on the right track it's not a fuel issue. 

I personally haven't had that problem with the p7100 so I can't say much...
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dus10

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Reply with quote  #16 
mine ran like that when my timing jumped, i know you said you double checked it twice, but was anything else on the pump messed with as far as delivery valves, afc lever, or fuel plate?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrpro130
Thats strange it does it with stock governer springs.  I want to say it's a GSK issue, but honestly sounds like timing.  I reccomend start by pin timing and go from there.  You are def on the right track it's not a fuel issue. 

I personally haven't had that problem with the p7100 so I can't say much...



pin timing, or just advancing the timing (i haven't verified, but i'm positive we're past the pin right now) are going to be the next steps...




Quote:
Originally Posted by dus10
mine ran like that when my timing jumped, i know you said you double checked it twice, but was anything else on the pump messed with as far as delivery valves, afc lever, or fuel plate?



nope.... everything else is still stock. he was going to wait till it was in the truck and running before messing with the fuel plate & AFC mods. we were only doing the gov springs right now since it's way easier with no body on the truck.

we're gonna move the timing and try that.... it's what it has to be.


this is how i've been checking it....

found TDC by dropping the #1 intake valve onto the piston and measuring with a dial indicator - marked the crankshaft. (only did this once)

pull the #1 delivery valve and install the dial indicator. rotate the motor untill the pump lift is bottomed out. zero the indicator.

rotate the motor to TDC, verify that it's on the compression stroke by removing the cam pin and looking at the cam gear for the hole.

take dial indicator reading and compare to the same chart we timed it to initially.




i might try spill port timing it too.... that would eliminate the chart, in case it was wrong.

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dus10

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Reply with quote  #18 
Have you checked to make sure the number 1 delivery valve isnt upside down? This would let fuel to be sent to the injector all the time. I had a couple put in that way ( dumb ass friends cant follow directions) and i has constant fuel to the injector when i did my first bleeding of lines. That was with the fuel pump on and injector line loose without even cranking the engine over.
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Reply with quote  #19 
hrmm.... i'll check and make sure tonight.
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Reply with quote  #20 
somehow the delivery valve holder was upside down.... put it in correctly and no change.


tried checking the timing via the spill port method. accoding to this, the timing is 16.481 degrees before TDC.


tomorrow we might advance the timing, just to see what it does with a ton of timing.

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